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Stopped again

Blog entry posted by sregan, Apr 10, 2013.

I stopped the third round. I had to travel this week so I couldn't afford the side effects which were coming to an apex last Friday. The hardest thing is getting out of bed in the morning. And I'm not sure if that's due to stopping the SMP or from being on the SMP. I had quite a bit of GI disturbance which makes me assume my liver dumped some toxins. The last day I also took a little HCbl and Folinic acid with my MCbl and MFolate. Not sure if that pushed me over the edge or not. It almost seems like someone turned on a switch. Maybe there is a point where the liver cannot keep up and that's when the symptoms happen. Mostly the symptoms are mental from what I can tell. Physically I don't feel that bad but I just want to stay in bed.
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sregan

About the Author

10 years CFS, SMP is helping me.
  1. Lotus97
    Methylation will help, but I think initially things will get worse due to the transsulfation pathway which is why Rich said that people with CBS issues would need to limit their B6/P5P in the beginning. I think molybdenum might initially make things worse too even though it helps, but I don't remember the specifics.
  2. sregan
    Hmmm.... I read that Andy Cutler recommended Glutamate and Glycine in a 2:1 ratio. I forgot it was to process cysteine for sulfur sensitive people. Found this on yahoo adult metal chelation: "I
    found Cutler's recommendations of molybdenum with dubious foods & glutamine &
    glycine (2:1 by weight) every day to be helpful in reducing thiol problems. My
    thiol problem (which was the worst I have ever heard of) vanished after I began
    methylation supplements (principally methyl-folate). Cutler does not agree that
    this works."
  3. Lotus97
    Something I'm wondering. Methylation is supposed to increase cysteine which is usually a good thing since it can be used to create glutathione, but if you have mercury toxicity increasing cysteine could be a bad thing since cysteine might mobilize the mercury. Taking glutamine and glycine might help convert the cysteine into glutathione since glutathione is made up of glutamine, glycine, and cysteine.
  4. Lotus97
    That's interesting because that seemed to happen with me too. I got the initial mood boost from B12, but then it subsided. Someone told me about neurotransmitter surges during methylation. I'm thinking about taking mostly adenosylcobalamin for awhile to see if that helps. For some reason, I don't want to stop methylation completely. I was feeling better earlier today, but after a few hours at the computer things have sort of gone back to the way they were.
  5. sregan
    The day before I stopped I added a small amount of HCbl and Folinic Acid. Not sure if that had anything to do with. I think I was already on the downward slide.

    I'm guessing you've tried the typical "neurotransmitter" supps? I was getting help for a while by taking Niacin, Tryptophan and a small amount of p5p (to convert trypto to serotonin. The methylation supps seem to initially help my depression I think because that cycle produces neurotransmitters when it's working. Something seems to go south after the initial "brightening". I think the receptors adjust which happens when people start antidepressants. They get hammered and have to downregulate.
  6. Lotus97
    Were you taking adenosylcobalamin before you stopped? I'm asking because a certain amount of adb12 will be converted into methylcobalamin and increase methylation.

    I've considered stopping all my supplements, but I'm afraid if I do I'll have a total crash. I do have a shelf of over a dozen supplements that I've stopped temporarily. The only reason I started methylation a few months ago is because I started to get depressed and the B12 initially improved my mood.
  7. sregan
    There is a lot of stress for me to travel. I don't enjoy flying and was fairly stressed a week or two prior. Now I can't wait to get home. You sound like you might be due for a supplement holiday. Maybe stop everything for a few days and let yourself reset then start adding back one thing at a time. For me things change and I need to modify my supplement routine every few months.
    My gut is reacting strangely and there is a correlation to when I feel worse and what comes out of me. Sometimes after a "toxic" movement I will immediately feel a ton better. Like a bunch of nasty stuff was making it's way through the bowel. I imagine testing might identify the toxin and allow me to take appropriate action whether it's a liver dump or a gut bacteria defense.
    I would like to investigate what happens mentally during this time when I have to stop. Does it get worse because I have stopped or would have gotten worse anyway. But it's like the depression goes turbo, I have no motivation for anything and my mind is in a bad way.
  8. Lotus97
    I'm actually thinking of stopping or at least lowering my dosage. The past few months I've been experiencing depression from any supplement that can cause herxing (either probiotics or those with antibacterial/fungal/microbial/viral properties). I think the reason the herx is causing the depression is due to inflammatory cytokines. Since methylation can increase inflammation I'm afraid that I'm making the problem worse. Rich said something about inflammation from methylation possibly being due to the immune system being reactivated which is then unable to fight the infection. Since I have Lyme and have been experiencing a relapse these past 6 months it might be a good idea to lay low for a bit. All of the methylation supplements I'm taking have individual benefits beyond their role in methylation so I'd like to keep taking them if possible.

    That's interesting that you guys mention IBS because I've been having loose bowels ever since my first methylation experience back in the fall. I have a lot of other health issues so it's the least of my worries right now, but I would still like to know what's causing it. I've also been having a lot of acne.
  9. Lotus97
    I think you did the right thing by stopping. Travel tends to be hard on the body even for relatively healthy people. One of the things I liked about Rich was that he almost always seemed to err on the side of caution and one of the main reasons why I chose Rich's protocol he described his protocol as a "gentler approach because some people need that approach".

    There was a study done on CFS and fibromyalgia patients using an older version of Rich's protocol.
    http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/www.mecfs-vic.org.au/files/Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf
    Even though some consider the dosages low in Rich's protocol, 10% of the people in the study needed to lower their doses and 53% of the people experienced an initial worsening of symptoms. Many experienced the worsening of symptoms after 3 to 4 days, but others didn't experience it until 2 weeks so there might be a delayed reaction. One person in these forums said they started dumping metals after a week or two of following Freddd's protocol (and has tests to prove it). Later, when she tried Rich's protocol she said she started dumping metals after six weeks (rather than a week or two) so it seems that the toxins are going to come out sooner or later. I'm still considering possible mercury toxicity for myself even though my illness began 10 years before getting amalgams.
  10. sregan
    Jim, It is encouraging that you are getting some reaction. I'm not sure if the IBS is due to gut bugs (candida) or methylation processed toxins released from the liver. I think the charcoal is a good idea. I plan to start working with that myself. I noticed when I cracked open a lecithin capsule in my mouth I got a decent bile dump. I plan to take a few 3-4 charcoal 10-15 minutes prior then take the lecithin, crack it, then swallow it. Charcoal seems very good at capturing bile and holding it all the way out. Hopefully the toxins in the bile get escorted out this way completely.

    I do not have a doctor working with me. The best doctors I have found are open and willing to prescribe things for me to try (Lyme antibiotics, LDN, etc). From early on with this disease the doctors have been unable or unwilling to think outside the box to help me.

    I will startup the protocol again in a few days and make adjustments.

    Btw, I was born in Bruswick, ME.